Hey guys, I'm planning on going out to the dealers next week to pick up a GC 3.8 grand touring. One thing I'm not set on as of yet is whether or not to get it with a manual or auto transmission. Ive read some reviews that say that the manual has some issues with a hanging rpm when you let off the gas, and some people don't like the feel of the clutch/complain that the manual in general is difficult to master?

This would be my first manual car so my experience is limited to the 2 times my friends let me briefly (very briefly) drive their manuals to try it out (my one friend has a VW Jetta and the other has a 2010 mazda3 2.0). I was pretty sure I was set with dumping the extra 1500 for the ZF 6 speed auto, but after driving my friends mazda for a bit I found that I really liked driving manual. The man questions I have are:

- I've read that alot of the issues with the manual GC have been remedied, is this true?

- Do you think its smart for me to be getting such a powerful car to learn on as my first manual vehicle?

- Is the manual really as jerky or un-smooth/ difficult to master as I've been hearing?

Lastly, which you recommend a manual transmission as a new manual driver who will be using this car in 45 minute commutes to work, oftentimes paired with stop and go highway traffic?

Thanks in advance all!!

- Mike

 

yamilionheart, I recommended the ZF A/T for my brother when he asked the same question about 9 months ago & still think for most this will be the better option, This particular transmission comes with synthetic fluid that doesn't have to be changed, at least for a very long time. In addition, there is no expensive clutch to replace either, so maintainance will cost you much less than the $1500 you are forking out initially. The ZF transmissions have been proven in other vehicles for years & I used to beat the shit out of mine in my bimmer, hell of a tranny. Now there is one issue with this transmission we have found out recently, but not with the transmission itself, rather the cable. The end of the cable going into the tranny has a grommet that covers where the cable slides into the protective sheath. This grommet fits securely over the insulation, but has too large of a diameter opening to the cable allowing water from the road & moisture in. No biggie in the summer, but in freezing temps, this moisture turns to ice & you are unable to move your gear shifter. Already happened to my brother's car (dic51). Hyundai is working on repair for this & they did a temporary repair for now. Other than that, damn good tranny.

Now for the M/T, if you really like shifting & think it will put a much larger smile on your face while driving, do it. Reason being, you will probably never be quite content if you don't, so no regrets. This particular M/T transmission should be no harder to learn or drive then the others you have tried recently. As a matter of fact, the dual mass flywheel was designed for ease of use for those not so great at shifting. The same DM flywheel is a PITA for the rest of us that want performance over ease of use. This M/T unit Hyundai has created is a good effort IMO, but has its own issues.

First off, the clutch I mentioned will have a tendency to wear quicker when abused or not operated properly. In other words, if you let it slip too much while learning or dog it out snatching gears, be prepared to couph up some $$. Next the M/T fluid from the factory sucks & Hyundai even launched a TSB to swap the 75w85 over to 75w90. I would take it a step further & replace it with Redline MTL90 or Royal Purple equivalent. In addition, the shifter bushings are too soft allowing too much play in the gate IMO. Finally for those early adopters, there have been grinding issues in 5th/6th gear & others with grinding issues in 1st/2nd, but its looking like the later build dates are not having near as many issues with grinding, so Hyundai may have already corrected.

I've driven my brothers 3.8 Track often & while it is fun, it is not nearly as engaging as my 2.0t M/T & I would note swap cars at an even trade with him even though his car cost about $7,500 more.

Hope this helps,
Tufast

__________________
If it ain't fast, I'm not happy.

'04 Honda 450R (stupid fast)

'87 Rockrawlin Wrangler
All mods, little left factory

Thanks Tufas, I appreciate the information! I'm really not too car savvy at all when it comes to what the functions are of different parts so I've been looking up some information about flywheels. Now does the fact that the GC comes with a dual mass flywheel mean that you really cant do quick shifting? Or does it just mean that it doesn't respond as quickly to quick shifting because of the spring setup inside the flywheel? When I say quick shifting I'm talking about quickly throwing down and letting out the clutch between gears, not sure if that's the correct terminology or not. Obviously I wont be doing that right off that bat, as I'm gonna be babying the clutch while I learn, but once I'm confident with it, being able to change gears quickly is something I would like to do. Do I have the basic gist of the flywheel? Thanks again.

Additionally, If I do go for the manual, do you think I should go for the track since its almost the same price as getting a grand touring with automatic? I keep reading about how great of a deal it is cause the LSD and brembo breaks would cost alot if installed aftermarket? Plus the car just looks so much more badass with 19" wheels.

IMHO after years of driving different cars, I would not buy any vehicle with over 200 hp W/O a LSD --- manual or auto. There are two many situations and/or conditions where one wheel can easily spin and put you into danger.

Thanks for the input olman. I think what it's gonna come down to is what trims/colors/transmissions they have at the dealership and what me and my dad end up talking them down to.

The determining factor for me opting for the A/T was the time in which I purchased. I bought very early in production and I wanted to lessen my chance of having issue with Hyundai's first attempt at a sports car. I knew that the 3.8 was a tried and true motor as was the ZF tranny. I also knew that the clutch was going to be very expensive along with the fact that the M/T's were new designs. It seems that a lot of the original issues with the manual tranny have been resolved so maybe that isn't as big an issue as it was when I purchased. The manual is definately more fun to drive and the aftermarket support for the clutch should bring the cost of a replacement clutch down. Once you get used to the sport mode in the auto, it is fun to drive but you don't feel the connection to the car like you would with the manual.

Now as far as buying the track over the GT. I always advise going for the track. It is without a doubt worth the extra money. In addition to wheels, LSD and brakes there are a few other things that make it the preferred choice IMO. I believe ultimately it comes down to what you want and are willing to pay for. I was willing to wait for the track no matter how long it took because I wasn't interested in anything else after test driving all options. I also knew that there was a good chance that I wouldn't be modding the car much, if any, and I wanted it to perform well. Luckily for me I was able to have a track brought to my local dealer within 24 hrs.

Good luck in your upcoming purchase. I'm sure no matter which way you go you will be pleased with the car.

__________________

Genesis Coupe

Bathurst Black 3.8 ZF Track

Thanks Dic. I'm pretty sure that I want a manual track after talking to all of you. The one thing that I wish the track had was the brown leather as I really liked that look with the mirabeay blue. Gotta see the cars in person to make my final decision tho. I'll let you guys know Wednesday what I decide and hopefully post some pics. Thanks again everyone!

I'm going to throw another vote in for the Track, and the M/T. The ZF is a nice unit from what I've heard, but in the end, it's still an A/T and I just can't bring myself to drive a sport cars with a slushbox. I think while the m/T had some early, and I think minor, issues, it's the tranny of choice for these cars unless you absolutely want an A/T. I think saying the clutch and flywheel will be expensive to replace is kind of not a fair thing to consider when choosing the manual. I realize this is Hyundai's own M/T in this car, but even not being the best shifter, I don't see the clutch wearing out for many, many thousands of miles, and in the end, it's a lot easier to replace a clutch/flywheel than rebuild the A/T if issues pop up. I think with either the ZF A/T or the M/T it's really hard to make any statements to how long it will last in these cars. There is simply not enough data out there to determine that. This is the first year of these cars, and we will need them to get many more miles and at least a few years of service on them to decide how the long term reliability will be. When and if you do need a new clutch, by that time you will be able to turn to the aftermarket for a flywheel/clutch and not be forced to get the overpriced OEM setup.

I know Tufast has mentioned it's a similar design to the Tiburon's and that he saw a lot of those come in burned at early miles, but just being similar does not mean it's the same, and you can get that with any M/T if the person driving it doesn't shift properly and/or beats on it. Also, I'd find it hard to suggest the ZF simply because the one issue it seems to be having now is kind of a big one IMO. I mean, I don't think I'd want to go to leave in my brand new 25k + car on a cold morning and have it not shift because of some frozen moisture on the shift linkage. Hyundai is aware of it and there is a temp fix which is just to grease the linkage IIRC, but it's still a pretty major issue. The M/T had issues early on with it being hard to shift into 1st and 2nd, and some had a grind when downshifting into 5th, but even if you got one without these issues fixed, they won't stop you from driving the car.

Lastly, it's a review, so take it with a grain of salt, but here is a review of the 3.8 and 2.0T Tracks around the track. They used Track models with both the ZF A/T and the M/T and compared the two fairly directly.

First Drive: 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe



All that being said...either one is an excellent choice and you will be very happy. If you can though, snag the Track.

This is info that I think anyone considering buying a M/T should know ahead of time....

3.8L 6sp M/T

part# 41200-25210 (Clutch disc & cover) MSRP = $1256.34

part# 23260-3C701 (Dual mass flywheel) MSRP = $2297.44

2.0t 6sp M/T

part# 41200-25010 (Clutch disc & cover) MSRP = $1256.34
part# 23200-3C010 (Dual mass flywheel) MSRP = $3902.14

I'm not trying to convince you to give up on the M/T. Just the opposite, this car or any car, is far more fun to drive in a manual setup. The issue with the shifter in the A/T freezing up is real (it happened to me) but it is covered by the warranty for 100,000 miles. The clutch isn't. I will be going to a manual in the future but I expect there will be a few more clutch options by then.

__________________

Genesis Coupe

Bathurst Black 3.8 ZF Track

I'm going to go ahead and say that is almost completely irrelevant. First off, how soon are you expecting to change a clutch??

Sure, that's a high MSRP for a OEM clutch, but it's largely an non issue. The clutch IS covered by the warranty, just for 12 mo/ 12k miles. So, unless you are expecting to need a new one in a year or 13K miles, I'm not sure what the cost of the OEM clutch has to do with anything. The transmission itself, just like the ZF IS covered by the full 100k warranty. FWIW, if you need a clutch in 60k or less, you are doing something wrong. Also, it's not always necessary to replace the flywheel...even if it is Dual Mass. There is already a clutch for this car just about to market in a matter of months, and there are lambo doors already for god's sake. How long to you REALLY think it will be for there to be aftermarket clutch choices?

This is the first car I've ever heard people say that the ridiculous price of an OEM clutch/flywheel is a reason to not consider a M/T. I'd be curious to see if a dealer needing to put in a new clutch would actually charge $5k plus in parts. My Mazdaspeed 6 had a pricey dual mass flywheel setup, and the parts came from Japan only. Even that job was only $1200, and that was more because it required dropping the whole front subframe...not the clutch parts themselves.

I will say again, I'm biased for M/T and I wouldn't buy this car if it wasn't available with a M/T. I just think worrying about how much a clutch might cost when buying a brand new car is kind of silly unless you don't know how to drive a stick, or you are planning on beating the crap out of it.

My .02 FWIW.

__________________
2010 Genesis Coupe
Nordschleife Gray 3.8 Track M/T w/NAV