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Tufast needs a TURBO...

4K views 28 replies 10 participants last post by  Mr.Fantastic 
#1 ·
Damn that sucks about the flandge oh well screw it i will still put a hta 35r on it when i get it
+1,,,,I've about decided to do this as well. Been contemplating it for a while anyway...Where exactly does this turbo usually kick in? It's supposed to come in like a GT30R right? What RPMs?



 
#2 ·
a GT35R will come in quite a bit later than a GT3076 which will spool more slowly than a GT3071. a GT35R is a big turbo, as in 600hp... if you're not looking to build up the internals, then its probably overkill, not to mention that it will benefit GREATLY from a higher redline. 3076 is pretty happy around 400-500, 3071 is happy at 350-425 or so
 
#3 ·
I understand the pecking order of the above turbos you mentioned & had an idea of the power produced by each. I've been on the fence on whether to go w/a GT3076 or a HTA35R. I've really only been wanting around 425-450whp. Although, I like the idea of an HTA35R, as it gives me room to move up later if I wish. But, I do not want to lose the drivability or ability to race on road courses due to excessive lag.

Initially, I was not wanting to go into to the engine, but after finding out that the internals are not forged, I've about decided to go ahead and replace pistons & rods as a safety measure. I was already planning on replacing cams, headgasket, & head bolts.

So, what I want to know is at what rpm does the HTA35R come on vs the other turbos: GT35R, GT3076, GT3071, the red & the green?
 
#4 · (Edited)
Tufast, I think you need to decide what you want to be able to do. Do you need straight line power, or more in and out of corners. Once you know that, you can decide where you need the boost curve to fall. Instead of building to get to a number, you need to build to accomplish the mission, and that may actually require much less power or at least keep the boost down lower in terms of RPM availability. I don't know if this makes sense, but sometimes less power equals faster times. Do you need top end horsepower, or more lower end grunt with less lag, or both
 
#5 · (Edited)
I need both. I can't afford to build 2 bad ass race cars, one for the strip & the other for auto-course. So I want to build a car that does very well at both. That's why I can't decide which turbo to go with :dunno:..

I definately want this car to attend autoX, time attacks, & drag racing, with the possibility of even getting to drift one day - we'll see. The 1st two I've never done B4, but it's not to late to learn. I do realize that I will have to give up some speed in my 1/4mi runs in order to perform better in the other races.

I was wondering if I get HTA35R (that is supposed to spool as fast as a GT30R), could I turn it down for the other events & crank it up for the drag strip? I just don't want to buy a turbo & a year later want to upgrade. In the past I've done things of this nature & its such a waste when I should of just got what I wanted in the 1st place. Now, if a HTA35R spools as fast as a GT3076, why would I want the smaller turbo, except for price?

What I need to know is anyone that races autoX &/or TimeAttacks, what size turbo do you run or prefer & recommend for a newbie to the racing scene & turbos. Keep in mind I can handle fast RWD cars & I ain't skeered. I'll also run factory setup for a few months to familiarize myself & then max the factory turbo out with all bolt on goodies available, turn up boost, & a proper tune.

P.S creating new thread to keep Beyond Redlines clean...
 
#6 ·
I know this sounds incredibly naive and simplistic, but I have to say you may wanna start asking Nissan guys your questions. I think we're all aware of the similarities of the Genesis 2.0T to Nissan's Silvia/240SX, specifically with regards to the popular SR20DET powerplant. Now, I realize that the engines are quite different, but they're still lightweight aluminum block 2.0L DOHC 4-bangers, made to rev fairly high and were built from the ground up for boost. They both breathe well, but that can be improved upon, though the stock bottom ends can only handle so much airflow before you're going to be running too close to the margin of failure. Granted, the Genesis is significantly heavier than your average S-chassis Nissan, but the engine is actually quite similar in concept, and the cars are quite often used for the very activities you describe. Therefore, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the results of a certain turbo when used on an S-chassis Nissan would give similar results here, albeit with a slight disadvantage, due to the weight penalty. But they have the turbo selections fairly well spelled-out, as far as what turbo would best suit someone looking for certain characteristics. Keep in mind the weight penalty, but use their choices as a good guide for your own selection.

I have studied these cars a good bit, but having never owned one myself, I don't want to give my recommendation. I would, however, advise you to do some research there, as they have the benefit of nearly limitless experience with all different types of turbos on 2.0L 4-banger powered RWD coupes, and this community does not.

As I said, I'm not saying that it will translate directly into the same results, but that should at least be a very good starting point for your own selection.
 
#7 ·
Cruiserdude, thanks for your insight. That's a good idea & I will take the time, when I have it, to research those Nissan sites. By the way, any particular site anyone can recommend that might be better than the others?



 
#8 · (Edited)
I'm coming from the srt-4 world, which is a 2.4 liter... as we all know. anyway, a 35r is a little too big for a 6500 rpm that the srt-4 has. they didn't fully spool until around 4000 rpm. a 3076 usually kicked in around 3000, and a 3071 came in around 2800. for street cars, the 3071 or 3076 is usually pretty nice. personally, i like the 3076 or a 50 trim/ FP green sized turbo for a street/ strip car. they'll do 400hp on pump gas (91 octane) and you can crank the boost for race gas and get around 500hp, slightly more in a 3076. as a general rule, you want the SMALLEST turbo that will meet your goals. a turbo running closer to its max levels will respond better than a turbo that has a lot of "breathing room." some people say to go big just in case, but i honestly prefer to have a goal, buy the parts, then after experiencing that goal if I decide to step it up, do it at that time. you can always sell a used turbo, and once you've put an aftermarket turbo on the car, most of the work is already done to put a new one on.... just my 2 cents


keep in mind, those rpm numbers are for an engine with 20% more displacement, so they will probably be higher on this engine
 
#9 · (Edited)
^^^ as an afterthought, the 2.0T's CVVT and significantly higher compression ratio will help to spool the turbo more quickly, possibly even more than making up for the difference in displacement... 9.4:1 is a tad high on a boosted engine


for comaprison sake, a maxed out 3076 with a good driver could put down a 10.9 @120+ in the coupe


as for the HTA35R, i have not experience with it, but I'd be really surprised if it spooled like a 3076, or a 3071. That being said, the HTA is a dual ball bearing turbo which in general will spool about 500rpm quicker than their journal bearing counterparts... Again, totally going on speculation, i'd guess the HTA is different than a GT35R, but the biggest difference would be the DBB, which can be had with the GT35R as well. not to mention you can get a DBB 3076, 3071, 50 trim, and possibly even greens/reds... i haven't looked at those in a while.

another option for quick spooling turbos are the Borg Warner Extended Tip turbos... VERY nice options there
 
#12 · (Edited)
^^ +1 good post FRC Z51, some very good points in there..


For continuing reference Tufast, I think it would be good to keep a list of turbos and turbo info for the guys that aren't super familiar with Turbos (me :D).... I was looking into this stuff a lot last night, and since my interests and design goals are very similar to yours.. (though prolly less ambitious ;) ) it would be good to know questions like:
what RPM does a GT3071 spool up?
what is a good RPM to spool up on for a very responsive turbo?
What is the deal with these FP green/red/white/etc?
Is a FP green better than a GT3071?
What is a Borg Warner Extended Tip turbo?
What is the difference between Dual Ball Bearing Turbo and a Ball Bearing Turbo?
What is 50 Trim? what is Trim?
What is .82 A/R? 1.06A/R??
what is difference between T4 and T5? (mounting bracket?)
 
#13 ·
For continuing reference Tufast, I think it would be good to keep a list of these for the guys that aren't super familiar with Turbos (me).... I was looking into this stuff a lot last night, and since my interests and design goals are very similar to yours.. (though prolly less ambitious ;) ) it would be good to know questions like:
what RPM does a GT3071 spool up? Keep in mind this will greatly depend on supporting mods(IC, exh,etc)
what is a good RPM to spool up on for a very responsive turbo? On a car with this low of a redline, 3k +/- would be nice
What is the deal with these FP green/red/white/etc? I'll let someone else tackle this question
Is a FP green better than a GT3071?
What is a Borg Warner Extended Tip turbo? Borg Warners idea to extend the ends of the compressor wheel to increase the pressure ratio, flow, efficiency, etc...
What is the difference between Dual Ball Bearing Turbo and a Ball Bearing Turbo? You may actually be referring to the same thing, some people just word it differently. Although there is a difference, its not likely in this situation
What is 50 Trim? what is Trim? See link below
What is .82 A/R? 1.06A/R?? Compressor or turbine housing? To save myself some typing, refer to this forum. They actually do a pretty good job explaining it. Turbo Size, A/R and Trim
what is difference between T4 and T5? (mounting bracket?)That is the "footprint" on the turbine housing where the turbo bolts to the manifold
Hope that gets you going in the right direction...
 
#15 · (Edited)
:bow:

Thanks everyone, that helps a lot actually... Most importantly, I did not know that the supporting mods like IC, exhaust, etc had an effect on how fast the turbo spools up. I guess it makes since though, since the flow rate through intake, exhaust will determine how much back pressure, and also how fast the exhaust gasses are flowing when they encounter the compressor wheel and spin the turbo.

now when we say 3K rpm is when the turbo is fully(?) spooled, what about before then? the turbo is still creating boost, correct? just not "full boost"?
 
#16 · (Edited)
now when we say 3K rpm is when the turbo is fully(?) spooled, what about before then? the turbo is still creating boost, correct? just not "full boost"?
Like punkrokdood said, only real world data will tell. There is no specific RPM that any turbo spools. It will depend on how much boost you are running. Technically, anything above 0 psi boost pressure is considered "spooling". In the situation regarding the 3071 and the Gen. coupe, expect to see 14-15 lbs. in the 3.5k-ish RPM range, +/- a bit in either direction depending on many variables. Once the turbo gets going, figure 8-10lbs-ish, the rest will come on fairly quick, assuming you are dealing with medium sized turbos like we are referring to.
 
#19 ·
Regarding the driving schools, I've heard many great things about most of them. Honestly, it all comes down to seat time. When I started road racing, I came from a mild go-karting background. That was definitely a good starting point. From there, driving events with various clubs was the best learning experience I have ever had. Those events are a very friendly environment and nobody seems to have anything to prove; its all about having fun and learning. Find some events at tracks local to you and give it a shot. There is everything from first time drivers in their bone stock car w/pads and fluid, to champion racers. You can tell who is who, and the *big* guys are almost always more than will to do a ride along and give you some pointers. Some events even has instructors who will ride along and help you out. For a couple hundred bucks (entry) + pads + gas etc, you can learn quite a bit, and learn the limits of your vehicle in a controlled environment.

Once you know your car, everything else seems to fall into place. Hell, I even did a local drift even in my FRC vette. I'm definitely not a 'drifter', but I can control a slide pretty well, thanks to track days :dunno:

There are many different ways to learn, that just happens to be my route. It did something though, placed well in more than one event and have the trophies to prove it :)

It's all about having fun and enjoying the learning curve...never let that get away from you.
 
#20 ·
I'm very glad that you have decided to educate yourself further in your driving techniques, as the old saying goes, the loosest nut is always the one behind the wheel! :p Anyway, NASA has a lot of events like HPDE's to help you get started, the PCA (Porsche Club of America) has DE events that are great for learning basic skills, and no, you don't have to have a Porsche to do those. The SCCA has started doing some good drivers ed events, and a good friend of mine, Jon Krolewicz, runs a program called Seat Time over at Roebling Road in Savannah, and it provides a great deal of seat time for the money, I can get you in contact with him personally if you're interested.

Anyway, money spent bettering your driving habits is always better than money spent making the car faster. Learning how to be a consistent and confident driver will make you safer, as well as allowing you take advantage of the abilities of a fast car. I'm glad you're going that route, its the best way. My advice would be to stay with the stock turbo while you work on improving your driving, learn to drive the car to its maximum potential as it is. Then, you will have a much better idea of what kind of powerband will suit you the best in the long run, rather than trying to decide what feels fun as you go along. Besides, waiting longer will let the community get more experience with different setups, which will help you tremendously, rather than you having to be a guinea pig for what's a good setup and what's not.

By the way, Maximum Boost is a great book, read that book several times until you can understand it fairly well, and you find yourself relating to it often when F/I discussions arise. Keep working on your driving, and you'll soon be able to understand what you want, and put together the perfect setup for you, rather than having us advise you on something now that will make you happy. Best of luck, and remember, we're here to help! :D
 
#28 · (Edited)
I've seen this vid B4, but it's one of my favs, so thanks for sharing. All I can say is MAD SKILLZ. By the way, the power of that car would scare me, but it sounds fantastic. I would like to what 100whp less on a RWD would be like...



 
#29 ·
Get all the info you can absorb Tufast... and were all so lucky to have great tuners trying different methods to get hp out of these cars. Only time will tell what turbo is going to be great for your needs and wants. Let the tuners see what yeilds the best result maybe you'll see a dyno graph from a tuner with a certain turbo on the Genny and youll fall in love. Thats what happened to me gt3076 picked it out before Beyond started testing theres out. Personally I dont want to pioneer with different turbo kit , i want something that works.
 
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